Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: chronicpain on July 09, 2011, 02:50 pm
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Most of you know that Im all about harm reduction. It irks me when I see someone selling an opiate and then say "this doesn't cause nausea, yada yada" That is so wrong. It may not cause him/her nausea because they know their body and dosage. But to assume that it will have "no side effects" on everyone else is just plain wrong..
It's all about dosage and administration. Hell, codeine can make someone nausea and you can od and die. Just because its a certain drug, doesn't mean it wont cause side effects and nausea or death.
Its up to the user to know his/her body and tolerance. I would hate to have someone die because they were told something like this...
Rule of thumb, if you are opiate naive, look up the starting dose, its easy to find medical sites on google. If there is any question, take as little as possible and move up from there. There is a good milligram scale that is accurate for around 50 bucks. you can find them cheaper, but ive found that the super cheap ones can be wrong by a 5mgs or more.
Get educated on what you are putting into your bodies. i think Nomad said something like this.
End rant..
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That is great advice cp. Scale is cheap and almost mandattory device. Remember, its your life you risk, vendors can be more or less responsable but in the end, its up to you - buyer.
Sorry about my english.
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I assume you're referring to this listing?:
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/4534
I agree that description does border on irresponsible, but I doubt he'll be getting many customers at $35 for a 4mg Dilaudid.
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I assume you're referring to this listing?:
http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/4534
I agree that description does border on irresponsible, but I doubt he'll be getting many customers at $35 for a 4mg Dilaudid.
Oh, I don't know about that...$35 is a pretty good price for a 4mg dilaudid...price is right. Gotta remember, we're willing to pay a little xtra for the safety of not having to run thru the hood with all that implies. I've seen D4's go for up to 60 bucks a pop. $40 is the going rate....$35? They wouldn't last long...depends on where you live, I'm sure, and what your DOC is...
Main problem for me is no pgp...and no feedback yet...we're short on D providers tho...nobody else...
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AT $35 dollars a 4mg Dillie that's $17.50 a hit.
That's a tad high for a short rush and short legs.
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AT $35 dollars a 4mg Dillie that's $17.50 a hit.
That's a tad high for a short rush and short legs.
Hell, that's just one hit for me, and tho I agree with all the above...that rush is pretty nice :)
None of'em last that long :(
But yeah, price is why so many get off pharmies and go for skag alley...
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It would normal be one hit for me too, but the past couple months I'll switch my drug of choice every week so i have zero tolerance issues. :D
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It would normal be one hit for me too, but the past couple months I'll switch my drug of choice every week so i have zero tolerance issues. :D
Yeah, I got another drug tho, that kicks my tolerance thru the damned roof :(
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Dosage: Gavison
Adults: 2 tablets as required, after meals and half an hour before going to bed at night, up to 4 times daily. A dose may be increased to a maximum of 4 tablets if required.
This was from a random box of antacids from my medicine cabinet. I think we should require similar clear, unambiguous statements of dosage from the seller in the same way that we require from regular drug companies. This would minimise the chance of accidental overdose that may have been completely avoidable if correct dosage had been communicated.
In terms of the bigger picture, Silk Road gives us a chance to showcase to the world a responsible community of 'harm reduction' oriented individuals who do not accept state control over our (very) personal choices.
The war on drugs is a war on freedom. I think Silk Road is an important battle in the larger war on drugs. I also think that if we completely squash the myth of drugs as 'dangerous' if taken in a responsible manner (ie. within your limits) then we win this important battle. I can't think of a better way to win the hearts and minds of the average Joe - which is required if our goal is legalisation.
My idea:
That SR introduce a requirement of 'dosage instructions' for all drug listings - across the board. This could easily be implemented with the simple addition of a (required) dosage field in the form that sellers fill out for each listing. This advice would also include information for new and experienced users of the item.
Discuss.
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well i know a decent forum thread for starter opiate doses, if it helps. doubt any one who doesnt know opiates would bother looking though. only drug on this forum i would like to see lots of warnings on is fentanyl, it probably kills more people then any other opiate.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12351
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I don't know...you get off into Harm Reduction...hell, the very worst Harm I can think of is being locked up for drugs I choose to consume, so why pretend?...we know what we do here, and anybody who can get here, is on their own...starting to 'pretend' by telling people when and how to take their meds gets a bit ridiculous w/some of the 'meds' we sell here...how much methamphetamine doc, and when do I take it...or heroin...or god help us, fentanyl...nah, not gonna fly: this is an outlaw site...nobody's gonna love us or think better of us if we assume the trappings of a Harm Reduction forum...plenty of those already, and all the arguments to go with'em.
We aren't legit...we challenge the whole idea of the state having the power to grant us legitimacy in the first place or knowing any damn thing about harm reduction or even forcng us to care about such nonsense, and to start parroting state approved sites will just bring scorn upon us for the hypocrisy of our statements. I think this site is beyond all that. Yeah, if somebody states some obviously dangerous shit, we can argue with them, but other than that, it's a good old libertarian 'buyer beware,' like it once was in most western countries before we slit our nuts off...
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I don't think that rejection of state control implies 'buyer beware' and the wild west.
A community requiring standards of behavior among it's voluntary members is not the same as state control and is not contrary to Libertarian ideas.
All I'm saying is that as sellers know what their selling and understand the effects - maybe a standard method of communication of these effects would reduce the likelihood of misinformation leading to someone hurting themselves.
I can't imagine any sellers would feel too upset about a requirement to include a couple of lines in their listing about dosage. For example, a first time user of acid may not realise how strong a 200ug trip really is. I just read in another thread about someone who did just that and had a terrible experience. Yes he probably should have had just half of that, but if he had read: "Dosage: 200ug is a strong dosage. First time users should try half first", then I'm sure he would have had a great time (twice).
This is not a state-like approach - it's a community minded approach. Surely if the SR community came to a consensus that this would be a worthwhile approach, then I'm sure it would be implemented. I can see two obvious benefits for the SR community - harm minimisation and good PR - in a hostile PR environment.
EDIT: And yes we are legit. Prohibition isn't.
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@skoobydoo: i am going to start doing this. its a great idea, but shouldnt be forced. i will however voluntarily start to label my products with as accurate dosing instructions as possible. you will start seeing it in any new listings and on my profile page after i finish typing it up. a little bit of accurate information and education never hurt anyone and a lack of it always causes problems. thanks for the idea!
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All I'm saying is that if vendors need to be careful on what they say. It just needs to be accurate. Someone that takes lortab 5's and only once in a while might see that tiny little pill, i.e dlaudid and think that since everyone is banging it so can he. Then he takes a dirt nap..
I'm not saying we should start giving the recommended dosages either, that should be left up to the vendor, but just don't give misinformation. It could be dangerous.
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chronicpain---Why don't you make a HARM REDUCTION THREAD? ;)
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Maybe it'd be a good idea if sellers describe how to properly use whichever drug they're selling to help out the first time users.
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I think vendors should point to a 3rd party source for some information (like erowid) instead of making their own claims. I think we should also encourage buyers to research and learn as much as possible about a drug before buying/using it, instead of relying on sellers to be completely honest about the effects of their own products.
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I get what you'all are saying, and I know it comes from good intentions...it's just, this site sells drugs that are damned sure dangerous, and a lot of people do drugs in ways that others consider 'really bad,' and you could open up all kinds of cans of worms, to where the guy selling fentanyl, I mean, how are you going to put warnings on that? I just don't want any requirements, or that might lead to people wanting limits on what is sold here. I'm all for referrels to HR sites, or Opiophile, or Bluelite or 'WeAreMethadone' or HeroinDetox or any site...but I worry that that we might go from that on here to being just a friendly drug forum, and then we'll want to protect people...also, we'll start revealing personal info...it's hard not to, and LE could start figuring out who's who.
Nothing wrong with people who want to put info on their pages doing that, but I don't want it mandatory. I hate methamphetamine...think it's dangerous as all getout...but I'm on the wrong forum for that. Haha...and who gets to decide it? If we start warning people, there's the underlying implication that this stuff is 'safe if taken correctly,' and some of it isn't safe, plain and simple...it's just a personal choice to do it...unsafe tho it may be...
I think there is an underlying desire/wish/hope that this site be more legit, so we don't need to worry late at night...Nah, you need to worry late at night: it's not legit, and giving off drug warnings on some of the less dangerous drugs won't change that, I'm afraid.
Owners can do what they want, and anybody else can to, far as that goes...I just don't want us to get complacent, and forget where we are...and what the stakes are...
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How many sellers actually use their own product? The best dealers on the street are the ones who don't use their own product. I don't think it is wise for dealers to recommend dosage levels unless the product is significantly different to the standard potency.
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I used to be a paramedic and went to nursing school. I never completed nursing due to an accident. That's why im so anal about this. I have seen so many people od and die. I just want the end user to be educated. I dont think that the seller should give recommended dosages either. Just don't give misinformation. I think the guy that sold fent. did it right, all he said, "dont mess with this stuff unless you are tolerant or know what you are doing" something to that effect, anyways. Just some basic info to say hey, this shit isn't to be toyed with.
i think vendors that sell potent items will get kids or people that have heard how great it is. I think Illy canceled orders because he thought that the customers didn't know what they were doing. All Im going to say on my products that I vend is this "product x is 20 times more powerful than morphine" Just so they get the idea on what they are dealing withl...
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Sorry to hear about your accident ChronicPain but this is an excellent thread you have started, i have seen many stories of people ODing on Fentanyl. I dont think it is the vendors responsibility to make sure their buyers are educated on every aspect of a drug they are selling but i do think if they are selling a product such as fent they should have a warning. I have tried a fentanyl patch one time, cut the bastard open rubbed it on my wrist and sucked on the patch, i thought i had a high opioid tolerance but i was wrong. I ended up passed out on my porch and my roommate carried me inside and made sure i was "ok". I ended up spending the next two days throwing up and just sickly feeling, not a very pleasant experience.
Another reason this is a good idea, as horrible as it sounds besides the safety of just the user it is for the safety of each and every USER of this site. An overdose that can be linked to this website would be the death of it. I would hate to see a human life lost and i would really hate to see this place disappear.
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Yeah, I'm with F104 ^^^ on this one. I get what you'all are saying, I think, but nothing like that will help this site. If some idot overdoses, it's not going to be because we didn't give out HR info. If they could shut this site down and arrest us all, they'd damn sure do it, believe me. I'd rather we put up a skull and crossbones and say "DANGER!!! STAY AWAY, FUCKHEAD--THIS MEANS YOU!!!" and be done with it. We aren't that kind of site, and I wouldn't want 'nice' people to come here thinking we are just a bunch of zany potheads who are misunderstood. We got some hardcore stone drug addicts on here, and some drugs I wouldn't touch no matter *what* warnings were given...if we start a debate on how much fent to take, or how to safely inject tar heroin (There isn't and yes, it's been sold on here too) we are taking a responsibility for knowledge we don't all agree on.
To each his own tho: those who wish to are free to give out what they think is good info. I've no quarrel with you at all. Just want to point out another side to this...
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The difference with SR is it's visibility and the fact that this visibility puts every drug known to mankind within easy reach of everyone. I'm confident in my ability to not do something stupid, but death by stupidity has suddenly become available to a much larger audience. And death (even of stupid people) is unfortunate and kinda final for those involved.
How about a non-mandatory dosage field coded into the seller's item upload form? It may just prompt the seller to include some idiot-proofing info into that description.
If I were LE, I'd just wait around til a death is (even tentatively) linked to an SR purchase and then - bam - the war on drugs enters a new phase. We have an opportunity NOW to adopt an explicit harm minimisation policy which can only serve our cause well. That opportunity closes once LE gets his straw man as described above.
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I"ll be honest: selling heroin and methamphetamine to *anybody* who can figure out bitcoins and tor, is all the provocation they need. I can just about guarantee they are already doing everything humanly possible to shut us down as it is...us putting up warning signs would be seen as ridiculous. Whatever phase we trigger has already been triggered by the interview and press...only the 5 minute attention span of the american public saves us. We sell any and all drugs on here: what kind of dosage would you give for tar heroin? ... what kind for the varieties of home-made methamphetamine and fentanyl we offer? See what I'm saying?
Some of the drugs, the pharmies, it might make a little sense, but then it just makes us seem more monstrous for selling the other. Again, I'm all for anybody who wants saying, u know: "This is nasty sinaloan tar, so don't miss or you can loose your arm!" but it just seems like a lost cause...again: I'm all for a big old badass ABANDON HOPE ALL WHO ENTER HERE!!! ;) but anything less might give the wrong impression. Some of the shit sold here, just doesn't lend itself to civilizing, I'm afraid :)
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The whole point of the thread was directed at vendors giving out BAD information regarding the specific dosages. No one should say, "Take one bag of my awesome H and you will be flying!" I think its better not to say anything rather than give someone false security. I think its very acceptable to say this is high quality stuff or whatever lingo is used to quantify the product.
I think phubaiblues is right. We can't try to police everything and we shouldn't. Vendors should however, use some common sense.
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Is this misinformation or am I misguided?
Was I wrong to expect a SEALED 100mg/5mL vial of solution based upon this photo?
Great false advertising and even better customer service. What else would you expect from the DMVguy though?
Sorry for the shitty experience, i would of had the same opinion as you though. Misrepresentation of the product
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The whole point of the thread was directed at vendors giving out BAD information regarding the specific dosages. No one should say, "Take one bag of my awesome H and you will be flying!" I think its better not to say anything rather than give someone false security. I think its very acceptable to say this is high quality stuff or whatever lingo is used to quantify the product.
I think phubaiblues is right. We can't try to police everything and we shouldn't. Vendors should however, use some common sense.
We actually see eye to eye on this, more than I imply...I'm talking more about the homemade stuff, while you're referring to pharmies, where I agree with you...I just get to feeling so hopeless, about SR, about LE, the politics, and yeah, personal fear that this will end badly, very badly, for me...I desperately needed some way, somehow, to get the meds which make life worth bearing, worthwhile, for me, and it saddens me to think that so many see this site, or sites like it, as *bad* as doing nothing but harm, when life is so much more welcome and warm to me, when I'm not in the physical and psychic pain that lack of opiates ensures is my normal lot.
I truly wish we could come out of the darkness, say who we are, make friends on here, show the world we are not monsters, try to ensure that 'bad' drugs have warning labels, and try to help people not get in trouble, but it's not the way things are, and I go too far the other way, wanting to say fuckit, we're outlaws, accept the fact, because I *have* to keep my guard up, to protect myself, best I can, from those who think that we all are just criminals, and deserve the wretched fate they desire for us.
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We are all monsters, the movie Monsters Inc. was a documentary on rehab and detox, don't you know anything? Those two faced monsters are all quitters, though, RARRRRR >:(